ORAL QUESTIONS

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http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Pub=hansard&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=39&Ses=1#OOB-1804755

Firearms Registry

Hon. Bill Graham (Leader of the Opposition, Lib.): We learn quickly, Mr. Speaker, that the term “affection” is a relative matter. In Ottawa today we have both the De Sousa family, who lost their daughter Anastasia in the Dawson College shooting, and Hayder Kadhim, who still carries in his head and neck the gunshots he received at that terrible event. It is a terrible memory for us all, but one that gives Canadians hope for our future. Graciously they have come forward to share their pain, their stories and their determination to maintain the gun registry as vital to securing the safety of our communities and our schools.
Why is the government rejecting the facts about gun violence? Why is the Prime Minister continuing with his ruinous policy of trying to dismantle the gun registry?

Hon. Lawrence Cannon (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, CPC):
Mr. Speaker, you will also allow us a couple of seconds to congratulate the interim Leader of the Opposition for his fine work. He has done it with the dignity that generally accompanies that task. We congratulate him for his fine work and that of the member for Westmount—Ville-Marie.
Canada's new government of course is making gun control more effective. We are looking at measures and ways to prevent firearms from falling into the wrong hands of individuals, such as, of course, strengthening licensing systems and enhancing background checks.
My colleague, the minister responsible for the file, also has had the opportunity of meeting with the families on this issue and of course we are working with the department and the families to find a proper resolution.

Hon. Bill Graham (Leader of the Opposition, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it may be just exactly that fact, the newness of this new government, that the people of London rejected last night in their byelection as not representing what they want to see in terms of our values. That is not where we want to go. We do not want a government that prefers its own ideology over the facts. The government prefers the wishes of a gun lobby over the well-being of Canadians.
Police use the gun registry 5,000 times a day. The courts use the gun registry. Dawson College victims want the gun registry maintained and Canadians support them. Why is the minority government flying in the face of the will of Canadians? Why will the government not reverse its morally reprehensible decision to scrap our gun registry?

Hon. Lawrence Cannon (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, CPC): The fact of the matter, Mr. Speaker, is that the long gun registry set up by the previous government has been ineffective. It has been costly and it has nothing to do with making gun control more effective. I would like to remind my hon. colleague of a statement made by the member for Outremont, who stated in March 2003, “The gun registry, it's a disaster, it's a living, breathing scandal, it has cost $1.2 billion”.

An hon. member: Who said that?

Hon. Lawrence Cannon: Our colleague, the member for Outremont.
We are looking at ways to correct this.

[Translation]

Hon. Bill Graham (Leader of the Opposition, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, facing that, we have the courage of the De Sousa family and of Hayder Khadim, who are here with us today, and who, despite their grief and their injuries, have come to Ottawa to talk about this important issue. The Prime Minister, on the other hand, has not even deigned to reply to their letter.
As the Dawson College victims have said, it is morally reprehensible for this government to choose to listen to the NRA rather than to the victims of violence here in our country.
Can the Prime Minister show some courage too, and abandon his ideology and listen to the victims who are suffering here in Canada?

Hon. Lawrence Cannon (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, CPC):
Mr. Speaker, in fact, in the interests of more effective gun control, the government is continuing to hold consultations with the provinces and territories. We have consulted with about 500 stakeholders. A firearms advisory committee composed of people with expertise continues to help with and support the work of the minister. We are working on this issue.

Hon. Marlene Jennings (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, after hearing nothing from the Prime Minister for several months, Hayder Kadhim decided to go on the road, and he has come to Ottawa today to meet with the Prime Minister.

(1425)

Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I want to recognize the family members of Anastasia De Sousa, who was killed, and her mother who is here to day, and also Hayder Kadhim. Yesterday, I saw a letter from the Prime Minister. I do not know whether Mr. Kadhim has received it yet, but the Prime Minister said that he was instructing me to meet with the victims. I have done that, and I am going to continue to work with the victims.

Hon. Marlene Jennings (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the victims want to meet with the Prime Minister. The Minister of Justice is asking the police to sit on a committee to appoint judges, but his colleague the Minister of Public Safety refuses to have police to advise him on the firearms registry.
Hayder Kadhim and the family of Anastasia De Sousa are here in Ottawa today to get the Prime Minister to change his mind and reverse his decision to abolish the firearms registry and to get him to strengthen firearms control. The Prime Minister must change his mind and stop—

The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Public Safety.

[English]

Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, we have heard from a number of police officers. We are going to continue to meet with them. The former police chief in Toronto said that he does not support the long gun registry and says that it should be scrapped. Also, Loren Schinkel, president of the Winnipeg Police Association said that the Winnipeg Police Association has never supported the long gun registry. Bernie Eisworth, executive officer of the Saskatchewan Federation of Police Officers, does not support the long gun registry.
I will just close by quoting the member for Ottawa South, who also said that he is not supportive--

Firearms Registry

Hon. Belinda Stronach (Newmarket—Aurora, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, on Saturday the member for Yorkton—Melville shared the stage with the president of the National Rifle Association at an event in Toronto.
Today, victims of the Dawson College shootings are on Parliament Hill pleading for the government to stop listening to the U.S. gun lobby and to start respecting the victims of gun violence. Unfortunately, they are not getting the same access to the Conservative government as is the president of the NRA.
Will the minister finally admit, if not to the Dawson survivors and their families, then to the front line police officers who use the registry over 6,500 times a day, that his attempts to shut it down are misguided?

Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I do not think I have to remind the member opposite that she voted against the long gun registry.
With the proposals that we have, anybody wanting a firearm still has to be registered. They will still be on that police check.
As far as the National Rifle Association is concerned, the keynote speaker to the Liberal convention, Mr. Howard Dean, has a 100% endorsement from the National Rifle Association. I would call that a screaming endorsement for the Liberals' keynote speaker.

Hon. Belinda Stronach (Newmarket—Aurora, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am a member of Parliament from the GTA. We have all seen the increased gun violence, especially since last Christmas. I am listening to my constituents. Look where I stand. My position is clear. Old quotes are not good enough for these families.
One cannot claim to be tough on crime and then publicly share the stage with the president of the largest gun lobby in the world. Talk about insensitivity; the door prize at this event was a rifle and a scope.
Why is the government sending conflicting messages to Canadians about gun control?

Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, our message has always been clear. The member opposite has changed her vote and her position on this on more than one occasion.
We have already addressed the fact that the Liberals' keynote speaker is someone who has a 100% endorsement from the NRA.
The tragedy is that already this year on the streets of Toronto 236 people have been shot and 25 of them have been killed. Former and present chiefs of police in Toronto are saying it is not the long gun registry. They are saying to go after illegal guns, to go after criminals. That is what we are doing.

[Translation]

Ms. Raymonde Folco (Laval—Les Îles, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the attitude of the Conservative government and of the NDP towards the victims of the Dawson College tragedy is disturbing. Two victims, Hayder Kadhim and the family of Anastasia De Sousa, have asked repeatedly to meet with the Prime Minister and the leader of the NDP but have received no reply.
They are in Ottawa today and have but a simple request, that the gun registry be maintained.
Why does this Conservative government refuse to listen to people who do not share its point of view?

[English]

Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I met with the victims a number of weeks ago and with other people at Dawson College. I travelled there to meet with them and to spend some time with them.
They had more than one request. The member opposite should know they presented some other suggestions which, if we can implement them, we will see gun crime reduced.
The hon. member may want to listen to the member for Ottawa South, the brother of Premier McGuinty. He said:

He said he wanted that on record, so it is on record.

[Translation]

Ms. Raymonde Folco (Laval—Les Îles, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, what I see is that despite the suggestions of the De Sousa family and of the young victim from Concordia University, the minister has not suggested anything that would improve the situation. This government totally ignores the requests of the majority of Quebeckers and Canadians.
If the Conservative government were truly listening, it would agree to listen to Dawson College, the police associations, the suicide prevention centres and the families of the École polytechnique victims that are asking that the gun registry be kept.
Rather than making decisions based on reasons—

The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Public Safety.

[English]

Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I have already quoted a number of police authorities that agree the problem is not the long gun registry, that it is the illegal weapons and we have to go after that.
I would also quote Shelley Marshall, board member of the Manitoba Organization of Victim Advocates. She said:

That is what the victims are saying too.

(1440)

[Translation]

Mr. Serge Ménard (Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, BQ): Mr. Speaker, today, the victims of the shootings at Dawson College are here to again pledge their full support for maintaining the gun registry. The National Assembly is also unanimously calling on the government to maintain the registry. True, the registry was difficult to set up, but it is in place now and it is useful to police.
Why is theMinister of Public Safety determined to abolish it?

Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, we want to stress that we are going to maintain a system that will list all the people who want to own restricted, banned and unregistered guns. Every day, police officers who want to do so can check whether the people in a house or somewhere else own guns. We are going to maintain such a system.

Mr. Serge Ménard (Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, BQ): Mr. Speaker, clearly, this is not enough. The consensus in Quebec in favour of the gun registry is growing every day, yet the minister is refusing to continue updating the registry.
Does the minister not understand that a registry that is not kept up to date is not very useful to police and that, in the short term, it will no longer be of any use at all because it will be too incomplete?

Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, police officers are unanimous that we need legislation to prevent crime and stop criminals, yet the Bloc continues to vote against the dangerous offender bill. Why?

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